Working on Purpose Podcast Interview: You Don’t Feel Ready—Good. That’s Where Leadership Begins
The Fog Isn't Waiting for You to Feel Ready
"Leaders we see today weren't raised in the particular fog we're facing now. They grew up in a time before and are experiencing this fog for the first time, just as you and I are. The fog is dynamic, it's fast, and it's not waiting for us."
Dr. Alise Cortez opens this
Working on Purpose conversation by reading this passage from
Into the Fog—immediately surfacing the challenge every leader faces today. In the discussion that follows, Pete Behrens unpacks why uncertainty isn't a defect to fix but a landscape to navigate.
The Fog Doesn't Mean You're Broken
One of the core tensions Pete explores is how leaders are conditioned to have all the answers. From school forward, we're taught there's a right and wrong, good and bad, grades that measure effectiveness. "As a leader then I start to feel responsible not just for myself but for others that are following or others that I'm responsible for in the organization. And so that burden we carry becomes a burden of I've got to be right. I've got to have the answer."
But the best leaders counter that narrative. "It's more about I've got a vision but I can't get there without you. That's this weird mix of ego but also humility—that you can name a better future and then also be vulnerable to say but I can't do it alone."
Movement Creates Clarity
One of the most compelling insights Pete offers in the episode is this: "Clarity doesn't come from standing still. Clarity comes from movement."
Unless we create movement, we don't get feedback. We can't see what's working. Vision doesn't preclude agility—it serves it, helping us know whether our steps are leading us closer to where we want to go or away from it. The Fog doesn't mean waiting for perfect information. It means taking steps and learning. As Pete puts it, "Movement creates clarity is a critical construct when we start thinking about the fog."
The Inner Fog: When the Problem Is Inside Your Head
While we often think of fog as external—market uncertainty, organizational chaos—Pete introduces the concept of the "inner fog." This represents our ego, blind spots, and assumptions. "It's kind of like on a humid, rainy day, the windows from the inside fog up. So what we're seeing, we're not actually even seeing."
The biggest challenge? Leaders who think they're collaborative when they're really just having people agree with them. Pete shares candidly: "These blind spots in my career have only shown up when others have the courage to say something like 'The emperor has no clothes' to me."
The solution? Create the psychological safety for those moments to occur. Give people permission to tell you the truth.
Elusive Peaks: Why Leadership Is Trickier Than You Think
Dr. Cortez asks Pete about his use of climbing and mountain metaphors throughout the book. Pete explains the concept of "elusive peaks"—false summits that seem like the destination but turn out to be more complex.
"I want to shift into being a strategic leader. Sure. So is strategy a peak? Well, yes and no. Strategy we realize is useful. But if I go there and I get aloof to the tactics, if I become disconnected from the real work, strategy becomes useless. So it is a peak but it's an elusive peak because it only comes in concert with something else."
Strategy and tactics. Expertise and openness. Authority and respect. These aren't either/or choices—they're tensions to manage.
When Hair Stands on Edge
Pete shares a harrowing story from his early twenties, co-leading teenagers on a multi-day mountain hike in Colorado. The goal: summit two 14,000-foot peaks in one day. When they arrived late to the first peak and storms started rolling in, he faced a choice.
"I didn't want to look weak. I wanted to look fun. I wanted to look courageous. And so I'm like, 'Yeah, let's go.'" They descended to the saddle and started up the next peak. "Before I knew it, our hair is literally standing on edge. It's a feeling, if you've never had this feeling, is scarier than anything I've ever felt before. It means electricity is about to charge and strike."
In that moment, real leadership showed up. "I realized looking back on that, the initial decision to move on wasn't leadership. It was cowardness. I was afraid to look vulnerable in front of these teens."
Leadership Without a Title
After the Marshall Fire destroyed 1,000 homes in Boulder in 24 hours, a neighbor stepped forward to thank the first responders. With no official role, this person collected donations, tracked down 13 fire departments through diligent detective work, and coordinated personal visits to firehouses.
The impact? Firefighters who'd never been personally thanked after a fire. Videos and stories shared from one of the most intense events of their careers. Connections that both sides desperately needed.
The leadership lesson? "My neighbor did not have a title. There's no community organizer title that she held. She just saw a gap and chose to fill it, invite us on the journey."
The Real Challenge Isn't the Next Wave
Pete closes with a reminder about technology and leadership: "The real challenge isn't the next wave of technology. It's the new leadership mindset required to leverage the wave effectively."
Technology waves will keep coming. What matters isn't the wave itself—it's how we show up and the mindset we bring to navigate it.
Ready to navigate Your Own Fog?
Into the Fog explores leadership through real stories from Pete's journey—moments on mountain peaks, in corporate boardrooms, and in neighborhoods recovering from disaster. Each story reveals how leadership shows up in unexpected places when nothing is comfortable or clear.
Whether you're facing your own inner fog or navigating uncertainty in your organization, these stories offer a different way forward.
